Curse

lursey · Jun 05, 2011, 04:15 PM // 16:15

the winner of HOH can obtain a token to have an option to setup the bars or remain with the old bars for the whole guildwars community.

who wins, who is the boss, it is more interactive, can be who wins the most in the same day, who has the most token in the week etc to fix the bar.

the whole guildwars HA uses the same build by the winner

players who wishes to change the bars, must fight along and win the creator of the skill bars to obtain the token.

if it is good build, it will stay longer than other, and anet developer don't really have to spend time making the fix bar themselves.

causal players can still practice skills, and maps, and have more focus knowledge of builds and skills.

the fun is even crap builds can be run in HA, as all other players using the same build

causal players do not really have to spend 10 hours making the build, and lose in 1 min, without knowing whats went wrong.....and quit, and blame on other players skill, but actually the build is inferior than other teams.

causal players will simply just used the fixed bar, and do not really have to care about the skills with all sort of opinions that really don't help anything in the team...as most of the time in a group usually is the leader who gives the build, and pug and players will mainly copy it and run it...

groups can be formed easier, as the builds are more expected.

True that it will decrease complexity, but complexity and barrier to entry should also be balanced...either is too extreme, will just be meaningless as a game for players to stay playing.

Xenomortis · Jun 05, 2011, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Are you saying that someone should be given the option to determine the skill bars of everybody in HA?
That seems beyond stupid - it undermines one of the principal mechanics of Guild Wars.

fowlero · Jun 05, 2011, 04:28 PM // 16:28

This wouldn't fix anything, it would rape the dead formats corpse.

All this would do is cause a mass exodus of players, and i don't see there being any influx considering the mass popularity of Codex to casual players.

It's not hard to grab a build off wiki, if you really believe builds are the reason you're losing as a casual player.

lursey · Jun 05, 2011, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Are you saying that someone should be given the option to determine the skill bars of everybody in HA?
That seems beyond stupid - it undermines one of the principal mechanics of Guild Wars.

that someone is the winner of HOH, and how does it undermines the principal mechanics of guildwars?

players can still determine skills bars, but in HA pvp, only the winner can.

everyone can be the winner, if he/she is skillful enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlero

This wouldn't fix anything, it would rape the dead formats corpse.

All this would do is cause a mass exodus of players, and i don't see there being any influx considering the mass popularity of Codex to casual players.

It's not hard to grab a build off wiki, if you really believe builds are the reason you're losing as a casual player.

no the current HA format is, different vs different build...

my suggestion will become, same build vs same build...

and only the winner of hoh can change that same build into another same build for all....

but at the end hoh altar, same build 1 will vs same build 2, to determine which builds and player's skills are better.

fowlero · Jun 05, 2011, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

no the current HA format is, different vs different build...

my suggestion will become, same build vs same build...

and only the winner of hoh can change that same build into another same build for all.

Thanks, i'm aware what HA is and your suggestion.

It's still awful.

lursey · Jun 05, 2011, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlero

Thanks, i'm aware what HA is and your suggestion.

It's still awful.

any reason?............

I only believe, people won't spend a lot of time making builds, and lose in 1 or 2 mins and then no other builds can be played to win, but only a few specific wiki builds.

fowlero · Jun 05, 2011, 04:37 PM // 16:37

It goes against everything that makes GW good.

Everyone would end up being forced to run the lame builds that the majority of players run in HA (BBway etc) and farm each other all day long. No build diversity.

lursey · Jun 05, 2011, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlero

It goes against everything that makes GW good.

Everyone would end up being forced to run the lame builds that the majority of players run in HA (BBway etc) and farm each other all day long. No build diversity.

...
if everyone like bbway, and you hate bbway, you can win in hoh with bbway and change into mesmer hex way or something, then other people have to use the mesmer hex way instead.....

fowlero · Jun 05, 2011, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

...
if everyone like bbway, and you hate bbway, you can win in hoh with bbway and change into mesmer hex way or something, then other people have to use the mesmer hex way instead.....

Yeah lets force people to run stuff they don't want to. That sounds like a fun way to entice people to play a format.

Bright Star Shine · Jun 05, 2011, 04:53 PM // 16:53

You know why I shot down your proposal in the other thread? Cause it's stupid beyond believe..
Making a new thread about it won't make it any less retarded...

Close this before the trolling starts... Or before I start trolling, and believe me, I'm holding back so hard right now...

lursey · Jun 05, 2011, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlero

Yeah lets force people to run stuff they don't want to. That sounds like a fun way to entice people to play a format.

...well the current situation is, you can run whatever you want to in the very early on, but it doesn't give a common ground for everyone to compete, it becomes more rock/paper/scissors focus of builds but not players skills....

in pvp, players skills are more important than builds...and now is too focus on builds.

and most of the time, you spend 10 hours fixing a build, people can't run it, and disband in a min, and waste all the efforts, even if the build could work...

the rock/paper/scissors factor cause a too high uncertainty in the beginning of the game, where players can't actually run fun and different builds to win...and become more of few rock paper builds oriented...with maps constraints.

beside, it is not forcing other people, you still have a choice of making builds only if you win..

if you say forcing player run stuff they don't want to, now is the maps, and a few wiki build forcing player run stuff they don't want to....while my suggestion will skip all that...

Missmelady · Jun 05, 2011, 05:02 PM // 17:02

The one thing that keeps anyone in gvg or ha is the ability to change team builds and to be able to go against meta. What you are proposing would be worse than the old sway meta where 95% of the teams ran sway because it was op. The only reason everyone ran sway was because r 1's could beat r9's with it if they got a lucky interrupt.

What you are proposing would get rid of any diversity which is the only thing providing life support to an already lifeless corpse. For one I can guarantee that if a guild that could run contag properly won halls and made it so everyone had to run contag a vast majority of ha players would be unable to beat the zaishen.......

lursey · Jun 05, 2011, 05:10 PM // 17:10

true that making an anti-meta build is fun if its win, my suggestion also include at the final end of hoh, you holding the meta build winning, and making an anti-meta build, and let other people to fight the meta build from underworld up to the hoh map, and finally you can test with the meta build, and see if other people using the anti-meta build can win the meta build.

I understand you guys want complexity, and diversity very early on, but the fact is showing with map skipping, no opposing enemy, and 1v1 hoh, that more players are actually scare of too complex and too diverse.

Missmelady · Jun 05, 2011, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

true that making an anti-meta build is fun if its win, my suggestion also include at the final end of hoh, you holding the meta build winning, and making an anti-meta build, and let other people to fight the meta build from underworld up to the hoh map, and finally you can test with the meta build, and see if other people using the anti-meta build can win the meta build.

I understand you guys want complexity, and diversity very early on, but the fact is showing with map skipping, no opposing enemy, and 1v1 hoh, that more players are actually scare of too complex and too diverse.

You have no idea why you get no opposing party and map skips and 1v1 in halls do you? IT IS NOT ABOUT THE BUILDS. It is about the lack of people playing the game because the skill required to play competitive pvp means that most of the high end pvpers DID NOT PVE AT ALL. THE ONLY THING KEEPING PEOPLE IN HA NOW IS THE DIVERSE BUILDS BEING RAN. Making everyone run the same build will not increase population at all......... All the high end players will still roll the shit out of the pve retards that are trying to play ha now and finding that they can not just run shadow form or spam spirits and win.

I am sorry but I am getting really fed up with the pvers wanting everything handed to them on a silver platter. Your suggestion would make ha even more of a baron wasteland than it already is.

lursey · Jun 05, 2011, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missmelady

You have no idea why you get no opposing party and map skips and 1v1 in halls do you? IT IS NOT ABOUT THE BUILDS. It is about the lack of people playing the game because the skill required to play competitive pvp means that most of the high end pvpers DID NOT PVE AT ALL. THE ONLY THING KEEPING PEOPLE IN HA NOW IS THE DIVERSE BUILDS BEING RAN. Making everyone run the same build will not increase population at all......... All the high end players will still roll the shit out of the pve retards that are trying to play ha now and finding that they can not just run shadow form or spam spirits and win.

I am sorry but I am getting really fed up with the pvers wanting everything handed to them on a silver platter. Your suggestion would make ha even more of a baron wasteland than it already is.

you saying the only thing keep people in HA now is the diverse builds being ran, my suggestion only put the diversity of builds at the latest stage of hoh instead of very early on which focus more on players skill than player builds..so that players have more of a chance to focus more on their skill at first than builds.

and you can see that it is only barely alive because the current so called diversity of builds keeps players away.

and very simple, reward doesn't help a pvp to become successful...say if in the current situation the chest, zcoins, strongbox etc are being taken away.. pvp will still goes on, perhaps a few pve will leave....however, the pvp pool will not stand on it feet, and if asking pve players to fill the pool it will not help a pvp game....and become a more pve farming game instead.

Missmelady · Jun 05, 2011, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

you saying the only thing keep people in HA now is the diverse builds being ran, my suggestion only put the diversity of builds at the latest stage of hoh instead of very early on which focus more on players skill than player builds..so that players have more of a chance to focus more on their skill at first than builds.

and you can see that it is only barely alive because the current so called diversity of builds keeps players away.

No the diversity of builds is not what is keeping players away. IT IS THE SKILL OF THE PLAYERS KEEPING THE PLAYERS AWAY THE SKILL!!!!!!! Not the builds..... You have 6-8 teams that are rank 13+ and a larger majority of them that are below r6.. No matter what build the r6 people are running the r 13's will 99% of the time win. It is not the diversity keeping people it is the elitism(yes I am part of it) that is keeping new players away... That and 99% of the pvers that are going into ha do not and will not listen to advice....

lursey · Jun 05, 2011, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missmelady

No the diversity of builds is not what is keeping players away. IT IS THE SKILL OF THE PLAYERS KEEPING THE PLAYERS AWAY THE SKILL!!!!!!! Not the builds..... You have 6-8 teams that are rank 13+ and a larger majority of them that are below r6.. No matter what build the r6 people are running the r 13's will 99% of the time win. It is not the diversity keeping people it is the elitism(yes I am part of it) that is keeping new players away... That and 99% of the pvers that are going into ha do not and will not listen to advice....

all Arrange team system has eliteness, this is just a by-product of AT...but the problem now is not enough arrange team being built... you pointed out is because the weakness of the player skills, and that is due to the current method to train players skill to a higher level is not enough....

in my suggestion, causal player can train their skill easier with a build being set and used by the majority, without caring so much on builds early on... if they lose they can blame on the player skills more than the build, polishing their player skills instead of the build.

Missmelady · Jun 05, 2011, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

yes I was replying cantalus post about more item being given as a reward, if you didn't see.....

and very simple, reward doesn't help a pvp to become successful...say if in the current situation if the chest, zcoins, strongbox etc.. pvp will still goes on, perhaps a few pve will leave.... a pvp game already could not stand on it feet and asking pve players to fill the pool will not help a pvp game....and become a more pve farming game instead.

First off guild wars has not been a pvp game for at least 3 years. IT started out as a pvp game and now it is a pve game that still caters to some pvp players. Stop trying to validate your argument when you know that you are wrong and that your idea is easily the worst I have ever read on guru..

Really you should take that as a compliment. It takes a lot of "skill" to have the worst possible idea for a pvp change on guru....

lursey · Jun 05, 2011, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missmelady

First off guild wars has not been a pvp game for at least 3 years. IT started out as a pvp game and now it is a pve game that still caters to some pvp players. Stop trying to validate your argument when you know that you are wrong and that your idea is easily the worst I have ever read on guru..

Really you should take that as a compliment. It takes a lot of "skill" to have the worst possible idea for a pvp change on guru....

guildwars hasn't been a pvp games for a least 3 years, you still want to keep it that way, and you can see why pvp is declining.

Kanyatta · Jun 05, 2011, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

guildwars hasn't been a pvp games for a least 3 years, you still want to keep it that way, and you can see why pvp is declining.

Almost everything you've said in this entire thread is wrong, and this was the final straw. PvP isn't declining because builds are too diverse, PvP declined as soon as real life rewards stopped being offered for competitive GvG'ers. Even as late as 2007 they still had freaking laptop and mouse rewards for the MAT winners, and as soon as they stopped doing that, there was no reason to want to play anymore, especially after Anet nerfed the shiz out of everything except the meta builds.

Your idea would make everyone totally abandon HA. It wouldn't encourage anyone to play it, because it would just be the best BBway team winning Halls and holding it until they didn't feel like it anymore, at which point the 2nd best BBway team would hold Halls. Any casual pick-up group wouldn't have a chance at winning a single match anywhere. No one would play anymore.

If you want to run the same build as the team that's holding Halls, press "B" and go into Observer mode and see what they're running. If you think the build is the only thing keeping casual players away from PvP, run the experienced PvP player's bar and see how it goes. Then you'll find out how it's more about in-game skill rather than the spells you pick.

Please, someone lock this thread. It's just trolls trolling some other troll's terrible troll idea.